You Cannot Demand Submission

While at a MAsT Meeting on Saturday , Masters And Slaves Together, somehow we drifted off topic and I was talking about the abuse in the local community and how the younger ones had no one to talk to.

I have spoken to a few Dominants about putting together a type of outreach program for younger slaves and those who are submissive, but no one has stepped forward as of late to help put something together.

Lets face it a 18 year old slave cannot turn to a 18 year old Dominant for advice when the topic is suicide or other problems. Like many of you, you truly do not have anyone you can turn to in a time of need, and certainly not your family when it comes to your lifestyle.

Then we got off track speaking about other Dominants we both knew 25 years ago, some still remain active in the lifestyle while one who I truly admired as a mentor fell from grace. A Dominant who was once respected in the lifestyle but go really stupid and ended up in prison.
I found it odd at times when a Dominant gets into trouble due to his own doings, be it acting foolishly or just being stupid. That is not something you would normally see out of a seasoned Dominant.

Then we got off on training, as I am talking and I start to unzip my pants, and the words come out of my mouth well lets start your training now, then Bam I stop…

We had left to look at another Apartment that morning, a very nice apartment, once inside it looked like a resort.
I am still trying to justify paying 1100 dollars a month for a place to sleep and fuck.

Moving closer to Arianna’s work for me is very important. She commutes and hour one way now so I would like to cut that down to about 15 or 20 minutes.
If your going to live someplace more so in an apartment you don’t want just anyone living next door, so I am willing to pay more.

You know there are so many levels of submission, and there is a Dominant for each Level. The same goes with a Dominant there are many different levels.

All to many times some are to fast to offer something that is so precious. Some just to fast to offer something that should be earned.

Respect has to be the first factor when it comes to entering a D’s or M’s relationship. You have to be able to respect the one your with.

One thing you cannot do is earn respect through chatting, emails and phone conversations. You may get that first WOW feeling, but the respect factor is going to have to be earned while both being present.

Earning someone’s respect is a process, and it should not be a first meeting process, it is a process that both of you should build together.

Someone making demands from the start is unrealistic. Being told to address someone as sir or calling someone Master before even agreeing to enter a relationship is unrealistic.

The one thing you want to happen is to see that WOW factor grow, as that WOW factor grows the respect begins to grow.

You want to make sure the Dominant is who he says he is. You want to make sure the Dominant is telling you the truth, being 100% honest with you.

One thing I never understood, why is it so important to show up for dinner wearing no panties? How does that prove your submission? Is that how you want to show your submissive ?

Why would you want to send someone you have never met nude pictures of yourself.
I myself never asked for any nudes from Arianna before we met. Do you know why? Because I respected her, I wanted to be able to move on past that WOW factor.
If I had asked for nudes I would of been just like every other she had met or Dominants who were trying to meet her. So I wanted to show I was different. I wanted to show Arianna I was more than the WOW factor.

If a Dominant wants to earn your submission, then he should have to earn your respect.

Vile

Gor VS BDSM

I love doing research one of my favorite past times. anything and everything. One thing I do a lot of research on is about the BDSM Lifestyle. We never stop learning we are evolving everyday , we are growing everyday, and yes we even change everyday.

I know I hammer about Structure a lot and some are even bored with it and some roll their eyes Gemini at the thought of me bringing it up again.

Several years ago I was at a munch and a Gorean Master and Slave showed up, from the time they walked in the door and left I was in a complete trance. The protocol and the manners of the Slave was something I had never seen before.

The main difference between the two is Gor is based off of novels written by John Norman , he sold millions and millions of copies, and Bam a new culture was born. A culture of Master and Slave that was not sexual based, but more on service and hence the Slave Positions.

John Frederick Lange, Jr. (born June 3, 1931), better known under his pen name John Norman, is a professor of philosophy and an author. He is best known for his Gor novel series.

Norman’s Gor series was influenced by Edgar Rice Burroughs‘s John Carter of Mars novels. Norman’s novels include lengthy philosophical and sociological dissertations criticizing the malaise of modern society (everything from common dishonesty to nuclear holocaust). A variety of societies, cultures, moral concepts, and technologies are described in depth in his novels; however it is always within the context of the male adventure genre, and, as such, families, children, and other mundane aspects of real life are generally absent and those roles are not discussed.

His fiction places emphasis on living in accordance with a Nietzschean natural order, supporting a hierarchy of talent, especially strength. He uses this hierarchy as a framework to analyze gender role differences in society, and he contends that the woman is by nature a submissive helper and figurative slave of the dominant man. Norman’s work often takes this observation literally: heroes enslave heroines who, upon being enslaved, revel in the discovery of their natural place. Bondage in the novels and in his Imaginative Sex guide is overtly and completely sexual in nature and while the philosophy presented is unquestionably that of male dominance, the male characters are themselves often temporarily and elaborately enslaved by powerful females. In an interview^[1] with Polygraff magazine, Norman stated that he believes that it is obvious that all societies are based on dominance and hierarchy.

Norman’s Gorean themes also are heavily influenced by social darwinism — only the strongest will survive, and the ultimate test of this is mortal combat for territory, resources, and mating partners. Social co-operation and other altruistic considerations exist only to serve this ideal. The weak should be despised and exploited, and the strong exalted. This serves as the overriding theme in all of Norman’s Gorean novels.

A Gorean house usually has more than one Slave, each Slave has their own duties and chores they must complete.  Rule, guidelines and very very strict protocols and they are followed.

I ran across an article that I wanted to share, I emailed the Author of the page and no response. It had not been updated since 2001, so I am going to guess it is no longer active, but anyway here you go.  It really goes into great detail. It is much how my relationship works.

This is just one man’s opinion about the differences between Gor and BDSM. It was written in response to a question a slave asked me and replied by e-mail. She wanted to know the difference between the two as she came from BDSM areas. That is not a place I have ever been a part of. Others will tell you similar things and different ones, including that there is no difference. I say to the last group, you just don’t understand what Gor really is.

 

It is correct to say that some things are the same between BDSM and Gor, whereas many are diametrically opposed to each other. The biggest differences are in the control of the Master over the slave and the point of what we do. Please understand that while I have read some about BDSM, I have never participated beyond reading a couple of Usenet groups on occasion and wandering into a very few IRC BDSM channels. What I say here is based on what I have read, what I have seen, and the people I know who are into that scene.

 

Safe, sane and consensual. I am sure you have heard those words before. They are the watchwords of BDSM. Gor doesn’t follow those rules. Yes, we do want to be physically and mentally safe…being sane is probably a good thing…[grins]…and the slavery we practice is consensual, up to a point. There are no safe words, there are no days we do this and days we don’t. It may not be something we do in front of children, but some do. Gor operates on Honor and Trust. I like to add Honesty and Responsibility to them. The slave must trust her Master enough to give herself into his hands. Trust that he will care for her life and well being as long as she is pleasing to him. A Gorean Master takes the responsibility for his slave in what she does, how she acts, what she wears, what she learns; responsibility for all parts of her as well as her well being and health. A true man does not willingly damage something valuable to him. Like anywhere else, there are pretenders, abusers, and people trying to do something they really are unfit to do. Goreans would say that a man must master himself before he can master a slave. The good Masters do not need to prove themselves to anyone because they have already proved what they are to themselves.

 

The other big difference is that BDSM seems to be about sex. That is the main point of BDSM as far as I can see. Gorean slavery is about service of a slave to her Master and the pleasing of him. Sex is there but it is not the most important thing. A Gorean slave is not only free to explore and reveal her sexuality, she is required to do so. She is not allowed to withhold any part of her from her Master. Most Goreans do not seem to do much BDSM play. There may be a bit of bondage or things (besides collars) which could be called fetish wear, but they are not central to being Gorean. A Gorean Master does not whip a slave for her erotic enjoyment, or his, but to punish her. To make her understand that she was displeasing in her actions or attitudes and that she needs to change what he found displeasing.

 

It is hard, though not impossible to do BDSM by yourself. A man or a woman can be Gorean without owning a slave. Being Gorean is an attitude and a way of life, not something you do in the bedroom or when you put on special clothes and go to a play party somewhere. It does not turn on or turn off when convenient, Gor is.

 

Understand that I am talking in generalities here, and perhaps the idealized Gorean Master, but from what I have seen and read, these are the main differences between the two. Some people involved in BDSM use Gor to spice up their play at times, sometimes Gorean use BDSM to spice up their sex. However, if I bind a slave’s hands behind her back, for example, it is because I do not wish her to use them while I am doing something with her, to her or while she is doing something. Or it could be as punishment for doing something with them that I did not want her to do. It could also be for training purposes. Many different reasons, but her sexual enjoyment of being bound is likely to be very low on or totally off of the list of reasons.

 

I have said that we can not do everything as the books do it. We live on Earth, not Gor. We live within the confines and legalities of our society. We do what we can to recreate parts of the Gorean philosophies and Master/slave system, but more importantly for men; we look to the books as a guide to our behavior and existence as men. It has been said, and I believe it to be true, that a man can be Gorean and never own a slave. A free woman can be Gorean and never be a slave. A slave can be Gorean only while she is a slave to a Gorean Master.

 

Telling the difference between those who might properly be called Gorean and those who only play or pretend to be Gorean can be hard at times. I do not claim to be able to tell in all cases. I look to see if they walk the talk. If they do, and what they speak is what I consider Gorean, then I call them Gorean. There are those whose words and knowledge I respect as they say they respect mine. Some of those people I count as being Gorean. As it pleases them to consider me Gorean, I have come to accept it.

http://www.housemalkinius.com/zwgorbdsm.html

A lot of good information.

Vile

Is Old Guard Real ?

Many of the new today will argue that Old Guard is just a Myth, it never was and never will be. When in fact I do believe and have spoken to elders who were a part of Old Guard, in the late 60’s through the early 80’s

Old Guard refers to the leather community mainly the gay community. I myself am not into the leather scene, nor am I a part of any leather family since most have blown the protocol way out of text. In my eyes a lack of respect of what use to be.

Most of the Leather Family’s today are known as pansexual , you can google that. Unlike Old Guard, today’s Leather family’s welcome most anyone, without even really knowing anything about them. In the Old Guard days there were strict rules and Protocols to be followed. The Old Guard was a closed community and you had to become a member. Before membership was allowed one had to learn all rules and protocols and follow them, if not you got the boot.

Over the years we have strayed, we have lost the meaning of BDSM and it has falling more into just a kink, a past time, weekend warriors, bedroom only. Which is okay but the problem is everyone is right, no one is wrong. When someone hears how a slave or submissive lives they are just blown away and cannot believe they would allow someone to treat them a certain way.

It is not that a slave or submissive in today’s times are part of or believe in Old Guard, they just fall into their Dominants ways of doing things. Being strict, having rules, even protocols both public and private is perfectly okay, when there is no physical or mental abuse involved.

It is not that we take the lifestyle differently some are just more serious than others when it comes to the world of D’s and M’s. How Master Joe runs his house is on him, I do not and will not judge.

Back in the day a Dominant had to make his way through the ranks, there were steps that had to be taking. If a submissive or bottom had more experience than the Dom the sub out ranked the Dom, yea sounds weird. The problem is today’s Dominants want to start out as president they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Unlike today back in the Old Leather Guard there were dress codes, and they were enforced. Arianna and I have attended some local groups and I cannot believe they way some of the sub/slaves come dressed, more so the way their master allows them out of the house. Arianna has pointed out how mouthy some are, how she cannot believe how some disrespect their Doms.

Today it would be almost impossible to put together an exclusive group for meetings or teachings because of how BDSM  has branched out. Most groups come and go because of a dictatorship or just huge egos. Most people today are close minded when it comes to how others live as well

Old Guard when in a social setting it was the Dominant with the most experience who led the conversation, on the other side if the bottom had more experience they led the conversation, if equal the Dom was giving the go ahead.

When walking the submissive walked one or two steps behind, remember you are not equal in a sense. A Dominant would never think of hugging or shaking the hand of a submissive, nor would the submissive make direct eye contact, though the Dominant would. A Dominant would never think of touching another who was owned and collard, there was a respect thing.

Protocols is a lost art today, but what I expect if out in public a Dominant or Submissive should not assume anything. A Dominant should not just walk up to a submissive and strike up a conversation, they same with a submissive. It is however proper and okay to ask. Some couples have no protocols at all, nor do they wish to, this is where the lack of respect comes into play when it comes to what others believe. I have had people say they could never live like Arianna nor would they want to. What we have as a Master and Slave is very unique and special.

Old Guard when a Dominant was being served there were two ways, one palm out and flat drink on palm, the other the sub would kneel head down and arms extended making the offering. Depending on the protocol the sub could either leave or had to ask permission.

Those who play on the internet who belong to sites such as Collarme.com Alt.com BDSM.com and so on generally stay on those sites with very little real in person interaction, those who get lucky enough to find a submissive or Slave generally fuck it up because they have no real clue what a in person interaction is. It does not take long for the Submissive to realize they have been played. The so called Dominant will generally put the blame of the submissive when it comes to the relationship not working.

When I speak about myself at times I mention old school, and not old guard. Old School just means I hold certain values when it comes to the lifestyle, I give and expect respect. I set my life to a certain standard as I do with my Slave. I expect when out my slave is giving the up most respect and she will do the same in return.

So in closing I think we should all get back to the basics when it comes to the lifestyle. Yes we do need rules, yes we do need guidelines, yes we do need dress codes, yes we do need protocols. More so we do need to respect others.

Coming in at the top of those who truly live the lifestyle with the fullest respect are those of the Gorean lifestyle. If you should ever have the honor of meeting a Gorean Master or Slave you would be truly amazed. Old Leather Guard probably not since the lifestyle is based on a line of books, but the lifestyle is very strict and respected by many. I am not saying everyone should live the Gorean way, but if you study up on it, it will give you a way different out look and perspective of their lifestyle.

We should all come together as one, and set standards, keep the lifestyle proud, keep the fakers out. It could be done.

Vile

Speaking In Thirds

A Slave speaking in the third person can be used as punishment, or to give them a greater sense of having the slave feeling.

I did this with Arianna for about a week. Although popular in Gorean books it is not a normal everyday practice.

A week Arianna spoke, This Slave. This Slave would like to speak, this Slave would like a glass of water, this Slave would like permission to go to the bathroom.

Making one think. The Gorean Masters well those I have met and that is very few, required their Slaves yes plural Slaves to speak in Thirds. It is not uncommon for a Gorean Master to own more than one Slave. In the Gorean lifestyle it is not as sexual as the BDSM lifestyle I believe it is more service orientated, each Slave has their own responsibility, and their own chores that has to be done around the house. While I have read up on some of the Gorean lifestyle, I am only sharing what I know. Please feel free to correct me if I misstated something.

You could take it deeper, This Girl, many years ago I had a very good friend who lived in New York. We chatted almost everyday for over a year, then one day she just went poof. Our conversations never turned sexual, because she was owned, and I fully respected that. When chatting her reply would be This Girl.

Humiliation in Thirds, This whore, this cunt, this slut, you get the idea. Speaking in thirds really makes one think. The slave has to think before speaking.

This can also be a good training tool, protocol, behavior modification. Structure, as in making one think before acting or speaking, and last it shows respect, and the willingness to want, if that makes any sense.

Vile